Goob, Google Groups does NOT need a Google account. I tested it - read some posts down 
Jason, youāre still giving Google information by subscribing to Google groups even if you donāt use a Google account. Eg, they now know one of your email addresses (unless you create a one-time address) and can link that address to anything you post to the group.
Goob, well itās not like Google will not index the public list contents anyway 
And that is good, because it makes sure people using search can find discussion on Diaspora*.
Anyway, personal preference, letās see how the majority decidesā¦
Indeed, but I have no problem with that - I could call myself anything I liked, and they would only be able to index that along with my comments - not any identifiable data such as an email address, IP address from which I posted the comments, and so on, which they can do if Iām using one of their mailing lists.
Wouldnāt let me add a comment to my vote. Hereās my comment:
Iād prefer us not to use Google, or 3rd-party fora in general, wherever possible.
My vote is for:
- hosting our own discussions where possible
- where we canāt host our own discussions, using FOSS projects where possible (eg Loomio)
But not if these preferences are going to be at the cost of development. Devlopment of the software, documentation and community must be first priority.
Goob whatever way or list you send emails to the same info can be traced - by me or Google. This decision by people who fail to understand this made out of fear, not knowledge.
As Goob suggests I think it would be a brilliant idea for the Diaspora project site to have a general purpose forum. I set up the forum Iāve linked to because I thought that a forum was something that was missing from the D community after the demise of diasporaforum.org. Whichever site its part of I think a forum is by far the best format for a lot of the kind of posts that have been going on diaspora-discuss. Joe public understand how to use forums, not so much google groups and other mailing lists.
Does anyone know who was running diasporaforum.org? Maybe it would be an idea to try and get use of the domain.
It was Ryan Kohles, Robin. Iāve tried contacting him a couple of times, but to no avail.
Jason, sorry, was getting muddled with mailing lists and fora - youāre right, another reason why I donāt like mailing lists.
(please do not take take my simple opinion/suggestion seriously, as i obviously donāt understand many areas with enough depth) ā¦ a mailing list should exist under Diasporaās own domain, or, a 3rd party who can be trusted, who honors & respects users Privacy/Comments/Speech, it should not be hosted somewhere, where unwanted person/entity can jump on a posting for censoring/deleting (or doing unethical queries on) it. Control should remain under mailing-list maintainer / diaspora.
I have seen posting got deleted (and partially edited) because poster showing facts on Google (& other company) doing this/that unethically (with News url links), and also showed such act can be overcome/bypass/circumvent, and what alternatives are there, etc ā¦ but there are too many google type of entity lovers, they will not like definitely and will take unethical steps, or will accept reduced services/benefits.
If an user/group of users, receiving a benefit/service from someone-else/another-group/another-entity/3rd-party, that does not give that/those 3rd-party/parties any right to harm/oppress an user/group of users, neither this/these 3rd-party/parties has any right to massup or play or censor or surveillance etc. All must/should honor all reasonable laws of the land/scope/area, that majority approves of, which in the long run bring benefits for those who follows such law. (That does not mean iām saying i support laws which were made over unethical lobbying/force, for favoring few/own groups).
A publicly accessible mailing list/forum reflects the minds, depths of itās posters. If you dont like a post/comment, then you must post that you oppose it, or you must post that you disagree with it or post your own opinion and post appropriate & truthful facts. But deleting/editing speechā¦ And please do not go on posting only one side of the story, read more on it from various sources, then discuss.
( Certain amount of ethical surveillance is ok if absolutely necessary, but in extreme amount with massive expenses while fundamental needs are not appropriately served first, definitely not right. Or to do biased profiling & go after specific userās detail/more info or revealing chain of related info, or, to censor/edit/delete facts/discussion/opinion ā¦ are very unproductive, destruction of freedom, and ā¦, and causes various bad repercussions. we need to be more smart/intelligent/etc about handling such ).
There are various alternative mailing list service provider(s) for open-source developers, many of which does not act/react like Google type of entity.
But i will recommend Disporaās own mailing list, definitely.
If diaspora to cater users who care about Privacy, Freedom of speech, etc then you/we should reflect that on our services/action/talks. Please do not act with double/multi-standard.
a mailing list / mailing discussion forum/media should not avoid at all, non-google mail holders.
please make sure mailing list software/service-provider supports/allows users to use GPG protected/authenticated accurate communication.
Many of the other internet sites already showing Diaspora respects users Privacy, etc ā¦ if those are not the case, then you should request them to edit/change those with your new slogans/dialogues/ideology.
Sorry for too long posting. just was reading/writing. trying to add my understanding. pls discard/dis-regard where invalid.
ā Bry8Star
I donāt see what the big deal is about Google. They have done a few things I donāt agree with, but for the most part they rock, and play a very important role for keeping the Internet open and free. (One of the few large corporations to do so.)
Moreover, I think that we have much bigger issues on our plate, such as keeping the project going, and growing the user base. I donāt know if youāve heard, but thereās still a lot of folks out there who think that the project is dead (or on life support). If weāre going to debate something like this, we should do it when weāre in a more stable position.
There is something I donāt understand.
Here are some guys who want to discuss in a forum and not on a mailing-list. And Robin Stent has even set up a new forum, which is a nice gesture. But why do you think that loom.io and especially this discussion here is no forum at all? Weāre already in a forum. What is wrong with loom.io in your eyes and why should we move from loom.io to yet another forum?
Another reasonable point is: at my usual FOSS-project Stud.IP weāre proud of having our developer-discussions being run on our own software. It would be a shame if we needed another software than our own in order to communicate. Since Diaspora* is also a communication-plattform, we should probably find a way to communicate within Diaspora with our own diaspora-users. If weāre not able to communicate freely on a high level in Diaspora* than our software needs features that allow us to do so.
A forum has a lot of overlapping functionality to Diaspora* itself - but mailing lists and Diaspora* do not really overlap imho. Especially the dev mailing list I see as important - some things are not just good for discussing in a social media environment where it is very easy to miss posts. A low volume mailing list is easy to follow - and also allows people who are not using Diaspora* but are interested in the developments in it to subscribe.
The diaspora-discuss list has been very quiet, Iād say probably because people are discussing Diaspora* on Diaspora* - which makes absolute sense. So should we move discussion off Diaspora* to a forum? Iād say no - why should we?
Of course if someone wants to run a forum and people want to use it - by all means no one is stopping you But for making a forum an āofficial toolā it would really require discussion on the whether we want to encourage discussion outside of DIaspora* itself or maybe just try to improve DIaspora* to handle forum functionality too.
Rasmus I totally agree that any organisation should use their own āproductā and I think once the groups function is developed that will be a realistic proposition.
One thing I like about Google Groups is the choice of how you interact with a mailing list. You can use email only, web interface only or both. While I donāt keep up on developments in FOSS mailing list software, I havenāt personally seen anything else that does that. I personally prefer not to interact with a mailing list by email, my inbox is full enough as it is.
Is there any FOSS mailing list software that offers a web interface similar to the (old or newā¦ preferably old) Google Groups interface? If so, and if itās easy to install and maintain (and secureā¦ donāt want it hijacked by spammers lol) Iād vote to switch to thatā¦ but it looks like I have a little time before this one closes.
Why do you need groups for developer-discussions, Robin? Wouldnāt a hashtag like #diaspora_dev also do?
What loom.io has and Diaspora has not is polls, which is actually a very nice feature. And here we can search for older threads much better.
Rasmus, posts in Diaspora* are easy to miss and due to the nature of Diaspora* federation - not everyone will get the post. It just doesnāt work well enough for this use case.
Email is a ājust worksā medium and good for communicating stuff.
which software is needed to realize a mailinglist on an own server and how big are the needed ressources ?
But why do you think that loom.io and especially this discussion here is no forum at all? Weāre already in a forum. What is wrong with loom.io in your eyes and why should we move from loom.io to yet another forum?
Loomio is for proposals and voting, discussion about how to move forward with development of Diaspora software, documentation, etc. Itās a kind of āsteering committeeā (although anyone is welcome to take part). Itās not appropriate for help requests, general discussion and so on. A forum with separate sections would (I think) be the best place for such discussion, at least until federation is truly sorted out.
Of course, once the Diaspora network is developed to the point where such discussions can be carried out reliably and easily using hashtags on Diaspora, we may not need an external forum any longer.
As I said earlier, we can install somewhere something extremely lightweight, like PunBB and get a functional forum. After all, all big open source projects have a forum. And for a good reason.