Hey guys, newbie on Loomio but #oldhere on Diaspora. I’ve been on Steemit for a few days now and have absolutely fallen for the concept of “likes” being turned into micropayments to support creators/curators of good content. I know there’s at least two more networks moving in this direction being released soon (Yours/DATT and Synereo) and I feel this feature’s going to be huge in the social netowrking world soon and so I’m wondering… can we get that happening here? We have the user base to actually use it (unlike the other networks), and it would even facilitate donations to pods and podmins and to loads of other causes I haven’t even thought of yet.
Discussion started here with @comradesenya, @herzmeister, and a few others: https://diasp.org/posts/5988024. What do you guys think?
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I might get back onto diaspora with this feature… yours has a good microtransaction channel thing going on. Has anyone connected with them? Maybe a merger is in store… I like how they give the curator a percentage. We could have an Option to check 1% for podmin.
While appreceating the idea to think about ways of supporting podmins in general I’m very curious about the idea to monetize “curating and creating content”. Not because I would begrudge anyone being granted, rather because it emerges from a silicon vally sphere, which reaches out for the idea to commercialize any aspect of human social interaction.
And by the way: I believe money is supposed to kill any real creativity.
if any kind of currency is used, it should be a mutual benefit currency or a global currency with ethical and political values such as FairCoin (run by www.fair.coop)
@allahhh Not sure about Yours or merging. Yep, lots of options for how the funds are distributed, but the first step is in tying in wallets with diaspora accounts.
@tobi Fair point. It would optional though, and I feel this is the way most social networking will be moving soon anyhow. Implementing this for those who want it doesn’t necessarily mean those who don’t must use it.
@ivorstodolsky Yep, agreed. This could be a development built once BTC is implemented: this is the main cryptocurrency at the moment and the only one actually used/known by “everyone”.
It seems all comments so far are branching beyond the scope of this project, but agree with the principle behind it. I’ll turn this into a proposal then.
Proposal: Integrate BTC wallets w/profiles
This allows for things like the (optional) rewarding of good posts with bitcoin mircopayments (instead of just “likes”), donations to podmins, and I’m sure loads of other things I haven’t thought of yet. https://steemit.com, https://www.synereo.com, and https://www.yours.network are already doing this, and https://www.changetip.com does so for FB/Twitter/Reddit… and I feel this is the future of social networking. Leaving it up for a year because that’s just how things move with us ; ).
More info: https://www.loomio.org/d/nSR6YhO9, https://diasp.org/posts/5988024.
Outcome: Thanks for the discussion, guys. I’m closing this issue, now doesn’t seem the right time for it. I know payment integration is the natural next step in social networking, but I also appreciate the special vibe Diaspora’s developed in being this quiet, reflective, noncompetitive space that it is.
I hope to see further developments on this front, but am leaving it be for now.
Note: This proposal was imported from Loomio. Vote details, some comments and metadata were not imported. Click here to view the proposal with all details on Loomio.
I considered integrating a bitcoin “web-wallet” into user accounts at cryptospora, as this is a software project I have completed before, for a bitcoin exchange. This might be an interesting gimmick for our pod, as it is aimed at cryptocurrency enthusiasts, however I agree D* should stay free and there are better cryptocurrencies and native platforms for Digg/Reddit-style kharma-voting on comment systems. One thing that would be cool is just “free” voting on comments by hashtag, so you could sort by time or votecount on submissions in the hashtag search page.
There is already a system for “liking” posts, but not comments yet as I understand. A simple votecount analog would be to add the ability to like comments also, and then add the ability to sort by how well-liked posts (including their sub-comments) are when you search by hashtag.
Valid points about this killing the peaceful vibe on here. I admit, this idea hit me when I was blown away by Steemit’s micropayments-for-likes concept, but it has since left a bitter taste in my mouth. Especially after seeing how so many of the users on there are scrounging for likes for what are definitely subpar posts, not to mention the immediate disparity it’s created between the haves and the have-nots on Steemit. It’s literally like watching a micro-history of capitalism unfold.
Still, the first thoughts that crossed my mind when hearing of this idea were of the ways this will forever change on-the-ground reporting and whistle-blowing, not to mention further democratizing the entertainment sector. We need all of this, guys. On top of this is the argument of decentralization itself: I would argue that payments should be on the list of services any true decentralized social network should offer, much like chat, an address book, photo albums, event pages, calendars, etc. If we’re truly for a federated, decentralized social network, then we cannot stop at mere communication. And yes, other altcoins may be better, but it makes more sense to develop the one cryptocurrency everyone knows first and then build from there. Explaining Diaspora is tough enough, now try explaining Diaspora+Dogecoin.
Practically speaking, this feature could be turned off by default, only showing up for you if both you and the person who’s post you want to donate to both have it enabled. This should be quite easy to implement (essentially an extra button), though I understand the security/cryptography and all that would probably not. And of course, even if implemented, you would have the option simply to just like a post without payment. Senya (and you other devs), imagine what this would mean to funding the long hours you spend working on Diaspora anyway. Podmins, same goes for you, not to mention friends in our community who do so much with so little to promote this project, and who could always use some help along the way: https://diasp.org/posts/5997289.
The bottom line is I just see many more uses than drawbacks made possible by this feature.
@zulu those developments you describe remind me very much of an interview with Jaron Lanier i’ve read a long time ago. It was about the gap between the evergrowing giants and those who feed them with data. His proposal is a system of micropayments very similar to the networks you mentioned. It seems he has focused his concerns primarily on those who got left behind after the burst of the dotcom-bubble: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jaron_Lanier#Who_Owns_the_Future_.282013.29
According to thoughts like this I can see your point.
Nevertheless I would find it very disturbing to see attached a till to every post and a kind of omnipresent demand to compare it to others in order to rate it rather than to value it individually.
Maybe there can be a solution like an optional ‘flattr’-Button on every users’ profile, which can also be seen in the profile preview when hovering someone’s avatar.
I can see how people could get lured to Diaspora in order to make money, but to me that’s a completely wrong direction and would not increase the value of actual sharing. Sharing, to me, cannot/should not be weighed in coins but in how interesting another person finds the posts (away from any money/capital interests which would distort the actual interest).
Sometimes I want to donate monetarily to someone for an awesome post, or for some other reason. So I don’t want to stomp on this idea too hard. Perhaps if there were a field in the bio for donation addresses, just to let people know at account creation that it’s OK to do that?
Riseup.net ( firstname.lastname@example.org ) immediately comes to mind. They are suffering pretty badly right now due to some hardware failures. While not active on Diaspora*, they do have an account. If they saw that Diaspora* could be a path to get people to donate, they might be more active, and people might donate to them more.
As said back at the beginning of this discussion, if any sort of currency should be used, it should support ethical and alternative social projects. Presumably most people are on Diaspora for just this reason - to get away from mega-corporations and their commercialization of our lives. There are such projects using alternative currencies, most prominent among them being CIC (http://cooperativa.cat/en/) and FairCoop (https://fair.coop/), which even has a donations button ready (here ours, for example: http://www.perpetualmobile.org/about/faircoin-donations/?lang=en). BTW FairCoins can be converted into any major currency.
valME.io approaches the problem slightly different but pays out in Bitcoin. If you’re looking for functionality to replicate, as I wrote to reddit’s CEO, I encourage you to look at it.
Thanks for the discussion, guys. I’m closing this issue, now doesn’t seem the right time for it. I know payment integration is the natural next step in social networking, but I also appreciate the special vibe Diaspora’s developed in being this quiet, reflective, noncompetitive space that it is.
I hope to see further developments on this front, but am leaving it be for now.
For one way of doing this without explicitly adding the feature to Diaspora, see https://protip.is